It's a harsh statement. I see it being used often by people upset at losing people in their lives. I like to respectfully say though that inasmuch hurt that has been done onto us, have we considered the same hurts we have done to others? How about all the people whom lives we left? It'd likely be that we can't think of much, not because we hardly did it, but because we did it so simply we don't realize it.

For many reasons, people don't always leave intentionally. Sometimes it's circumstances that demands so. For some, the bonds of relationships slowly break down. There's also the factor of insignificance or one party not valuing the relationship as the other, and worst would of course for one to make a temporary gain from that relationship.

We all do it, I believe. It's impossible to plan to stay in every life you come across, similarly it's impossible to not walk into someone's life without deciding to. At every point of time, people are going to be part of your life, just as well you being a part of others life. Everyone has an subjective value to the other, and it isn't always reciprocal. People will leave you just as often as we'd do to others.

While being upset and angry about someone moving on from you, how about reflecting on people you moved on from, people whom valued your relationship and were hurt when you unknowingly moved on. Maybe then in your own vindication, understand that people leaving our lives isn't always intentional, sadly.



I believe this process is natural, albeit painful. Why not remember the good times as blessing rather let it be a curse to your happiness. Let go the ashes of the past and hold on to the present. Stop living in memories, rather make space to create better ones. Cherish what that we have now.
Memories are of a dead past, but the present is alive. Stop mourning death and start appreciating life. Don't neglect the people that are around for the people who arent there, because soon enough they too will have to go.

Labels: thoughts

It was meant as a joke, but it struck a thought in my head.

What if they wouldn't come to a good end?

Labels: EMO

Finding decent things to write about so I don't lose them in my mind. So here's one of simple yet profound concept lingering about.

I think the system by which this world was designed to run on is on selflessness. Basically, self-giving. If we'd all live giving rather than getting, I think the world will be a better place to live in. To live, we need things. Most of these needs often are derived from others. Money, food, comfort, assurance, companionship, love. And these are so dearly yearned that many people go the extremes to attain them.

Unfortunately, it's the philosophy of many to do opposite, in which we stick to self-preservation. And it's that attitude is what hurts the world, hurts people. We become desperate in ensuring our own survival from hurts, we start to put up measures to protect what we have from going out, at the same time trying to find opportunities to get them.

All of these works on a system of give and take. To take something equates to someone giving it out. For every person being cared for, someone must give out the same measure of care. On the other hand, someone who holds back from another equates to a lack for the receiving end.

In sum, there's more people wanting to be helped than to help. The good thing is that there's a bunch of good people giving out more than they receive from others (tap from other resources).

Another part of this system is the cycle of hurts. We all get hurt. And hurting prompts many to become protective of themselves. Often, the wrong kind of defense are employed, and it results in keeping safe at the expense others. In turn, people around get hurt and the same defense kicks in, causing a cyclic series of people hurting people.

If'd all let down our hurtful defenses for once, and at the same time do a nice deed for another, we could begin a cycle of positive support. Everyone relying on each other instead of dysfunctional coping mechanisms. It'd would be impractical to ask everyone to do it at one go, but then change must begin with one. For one person to stop playing the hurt game, for another to reciprocate, and soon more to follow on. If'd we all do our parts and persevere in holding out, instead of adding to this hurtful cycle, one day we'll make it a better place for everyone, for ourselves. But of course this will take selflessness.

I can't ask people to stop this, but I can be an example and play a part in stopping this. Will you?

Labels: thoughts

Hmm, just a little update on my journey. Realize during this season, I have actually develop some degree of humility.

This comes quite as a surprise as not many people would know, but I used to be someone who would never back down in any and I mean any fight. Hence my stamina in going on and on repetitively on many things. I could stretch an argument to a span of days based on a single word I didn't feel happy about.

But it's been a long learning process. Didn't realize it but I'm glad. Over time, I've learnt to place my pride aside and make an effort to see where the "offending" party is coming from. It means that I actually remind myself to, lol. Sadly it isn't natural yet. Though, it's a big difference from the past me who wouldn't even consider my fault to be greater.

I think the root of every conflicts can be singled down to two simple things. Pride and anger. Sometimes we become self-absorbed in only wanting things our way, we push aside all opposition mindlessly. We ignore any faults and zoom in on the other person, demanding only what satisfies us, right or not. Mostly it's always only all about the other person and all his mistakes and faults But in every situation and conflict, have you sat down and thought who's the one with the biggest fault?


You're the one with pride. You're the one angry and being hostile. No, it doesnt matter how little it is, you've done it, you're wrong. And you've made a wrong to the other party, yes to the one that's being even nastier and judgmental. The person's who's shooting you down. Cos the important thing is, it's not what others have done, but what you did. Your faults are yours and yours to bear. Pride comes in, often in a self-righteous manner, setting yourself up to be better than the other person, hence being less at fault means we're more right.

When we choose to give that up, reminding ourselves its not always about us, we open ourselves to understanding the other person. Of course how much understanding boils down to the degree of how much we choose to let go. Even when people shoot us down for things we may not wholely agree on, there is usually a little truth in what people say that is applicable on us. A little pride or anger, the wrong tone, that moment of disrespect.

And that's what we are at fault for, regardless the aggressor and victim. So as long as we've made a small wrong, we're still wrong. Can't compare someone with 99 faults to say he's 98 faults more than me so he's more wrong. There's no "more wrong". There's only wrong, something everybody often is, in their own ways. Similarly, there's no one person being 'more right' than the other.


So, if'd we could all lower our pride,reflect what we've done instead of being so critical of others. When someone shoots you, look at what truly was wrong with us rather than focus on what isn't, we'll all be better people.

Humility isn't for others. It's for ourselves. We learn. We build character.

Labels: thoughts

Took part in a deaf flash mob on 12 Feb. First time doing such a gutsy thing out in public.

Lol, slightly ego-centric here, but I like the pics of me. Feels weird yet interesting to see myself through another's perspective. HAHA.

Sorry for putting so many pics of myself. I'd like to see pics of me on my blog more often. I hardly have any.







"so free yourself and let live"


"love all men"

Labels: life, memories

And that's it, I've handed in my final assignment of my poly life. Man, that weight off the shoulders when throwing that booklet into the pigeon hole. Literally skipped and pranced the rest of the day.

Well, as much as that's done for the moment. Pretty much still have a big load in life to handle. Even worse, one's been added on recently, though you could say it was something I neglected anyway.

For now, I really want a break, if I could. but I'm just gonna trudge along with whatever I can find, and mercy be on me I get out of this with my sanity intact. It's been a really really bruising season, sweat drops turn crimson red.

As of the moment, 3 major issues in my life. and here they are in no particular order of disdain or excitement.

One.
Myself. and every lie I've believed in. That resolution I made this year, to free myself from the prison I kept myself in. To open up to love again, trust in the people and things around me. Forgive myself for all the wrongs I've done and learn to value myself a bit more.

Two.
Her. and everything that's has came out of this. There's still that incomprehensible frustration of how and why you were. Sometimes, you'd have to do the hardest things for love. Sometimes, you'd have to pay the highest price for it. And yet it is another mess I'm needing to sort out. It wont be easy, it'll come with pain, but to do it because it's necessary.

Three.
Him. and everything I've failed to be. The latest to my load, but was something neglected far too long. I'll have to put in effort to live up to my role, to be that example. It's long overdue, but never too late to start. Learn to be a better older brother


So gotta hold myself together, and pull through the storms ahead. Tough times ahead, but I'ma push through the rain to see that rainbow on the other side. Cheers!

Labels: life, thoughts

Put down my pride for once. And I tried.

I choked on it, coughed, mumbled. I mouthed it, and uttered a few sounds.

"I'm sorry."

I couldn't remember the last time I actually said that to him.

Unfortunately, "sorry" isn't always enough to fix things. Nor does it always redeem you a chance to make right.

But I realize, I didn't feel that pain of rejection and silence. Maybe I've grown more accustomed to it.

Labels: heart, life, thoughts

I'm sorry. Bryan. I'm sorry.

This may be the last time we ever get to speak, i'm not sure if you heard me that night. There's some things I hope I'll get to say before I never have the chance to again.

I'm sorry for not being a brother to you.

and,

I'm really proud and honoured to have you as a brother.

Labels: heart, memories

Had one of the biggest fight ever since a long time. Involved the whole family. Hah.

But keeping things short, I've realized how much a failure I am. I'm not putting myself down or anything. I'm referring to all the terrible flaws I have and feel so disgusted and disappointed about. I wish to change it, for but I really cant do it on my own?

Secondly, it reminded me about me not feeling loved. For many years I've purposed to live a life for others, to bring them a little more happiness, love, to build them up. But I think I'm quite avoidant about feel weak myself. I daren't be the weak one where everyone has to help me, and for that i've neglected a lot of issues that do not receive the attention they ought to.

I should stop running away from my own weakness. Stop denying the help and love people are willing to give me. Stop believing in the lies that no one will be there for me. Stop thinking that I'm not worth it.

I dunno, I made my resolution this year to really overcome this whole issue on love, but I forgot along the way, and it wasn't enough. If i really want this solved, I need to stop holding it on, cautiously letting it go. Trust. Let it all go. Let myself fall. People will be there to catch me, people will be there to hold me. I am cared for. I am loved. I am esteemed. I am cherished. I am important enough for their sacrifices. I am worth it.

So, to the ones who love me. Thank you for loving me. I'm sorry I've always pushed it away, and chose to see otherwise. I thank you so much for always being there in the good and bad, and for bearing with whatever nonsense I am. I have a request, those really uncomfortably, that if you care, would you kindly let me know you do. You don't have to if its uncomfortable. And for bigger request, do it make obvious, maybe like with a hashtag #hinico HAHA. Even if you're close do leave a name or a message.

The reason why is so that I'll have to proof, the evidence to show myself, that look, all these people are here, and they did this for you, big, small, long, short. They did this for you because they love you and care for you. And because of this, you never ever have the right to say you're alone without anyone. I don't want to give any room for excuse. Because this list of people have made an effort, gave a part of themselves for you to show that they're there and you can never say otherwise.

Lol. I'm make a dam ballsy move here. I don't if it'd even work out. I'll take the chance and try all over again. So, friends, families, and shadow ninjas, will you help me when i'm in need? hold me when I'm weak?

Will you?

"...at least stranger guys try much much harder getting to me."

You probably forgot the times I cried for you, bled for you, stab my heart for you, gave up my time for you, walked right into the face of rejection for you, call out while you ignored me for you, go lengths I've never gone for you.

And did my efforts get you? Now you're done with your games, when things are so broken down and I've been so worn out, you think it's time to be nicer to me. Why didn't you do it earlier? Why wouldn't you forgive me when I said sorry? Why wouldn't you look at me when I call you? Why wouldn't you answer despite me crying out for you to hear me? You're the only person in my life I fought so hard for. And what did I get in return for that effort? Rejection and spite.

If I was "so eager to readily hurt" you, I'd have long gave up on everything. I'd take out revenge by not answering nor looking at you when you talk to me. I'd blame you for cheating, and then using me-hurting-you as the reason for every choice you make. You see, if I wanted to hurt you purposefully and readily, I can do that anytime I want. In fact, I'm well verse in the know-hows of hurting someone. But no I don't do that, alright, I don't. I may have hurt you in many many ways, but none of them was ever intentional. Even if I get so pissed I feel like doing something to hurt you back, I make it a rule never to, because it never does anything good to hurt the people you love and care about. And I really don't like how you endlessly accuse me of how I enjoy hurting you purposefully with eagerness. Now if I ask you the same, what would be your answer?

Stop shifting everything on me, making me the absolute wrong of everything. Learn to take some responsibilities for your actions and choices. Stop blaming me, and using me as the reason for everything you do. It's my fault you're unhappy, it's my fault you're hurting yourself. It's my fault you never get out of this grudge. So now that i'm unhappy and tired of everything, is it my fault for turning things out badly that you've become this way? When, when will it ever be anything of your doing, the choices you made, the actions you took, that plays a part leading out to today. Or are you going to forever see yourself as a victim.

We both are victims. Victims of our own foolishness. Of trying to get the things we want for our own worlds. Of not learning how to look past our own insecurities, our past hurts, for not letting go of our emotional baggage, weighing on each other's present our past. Of taking on more responsibilities we arent ready for, for doing things we ought to know better not to. It's been a harsh lesson for both of us. I've learnt many valuable lessons though in painful ways. I hope you have too. Because each unlearnt lesson comes in more painful ways, and sometimes regrets. From now on, we be responsible of our respective lives, stop using each other as a scapegoat or punching bag. We'd become better people I'm sure.

It's a harsh statement. I see it being used often by people upset at losing people in their lives. I like to respectfully say though that inasmuch hurt that has been done onto us, have we considered the same hurts we have done to others? How about all the people whom lives we left? It'd likely be that we can't think of much, not because we hardly did it, but because we did it so simply we don't realize it.

For many reasons, people don't always leave intentionally. Sometimes it's circumstances that demands so. For some, the bonds of relationships slowly break down. There's also the factor of insignificance or one party not valuing the relationship as the other, and worst would of course for one to make a temporary gain from that relationship.

We all do it, I believe. It's impossible to plan to stay in every life you come across, similarly it's impossible to not walk into someone's life without deciding to. At every point of time, people are going to be part of your life, just as well you being a part of others life. Everyone has an subjective value to the other, and it isn't always reciprocal. People will leave you just as often as we'd do to others.

While being upset and angry about someone moving on from you, how about reflecting on people you moved on from, people whom valued your relationship and were hurt when you unknowingly moved on. Maybe then in your own vindication, understand that people leaving our lives isn't always intentional, sadly.



I believe this process is natural, albeit painful. Why not remember the good times as blessing rather let it be a curse to your happiness. Let go the ashes of the past and hold on to the present. Stop living in memories, rather make space to create better ones. Cherish what that we have now.
Memories are of a dead past, but the present is alive. Stop mourning death and start appreciating life. Don't neglect the people that are around for the people who arent there, because soon enough they too will have to go.

Labels: thoughts

It was meant as a joke, but it struck a thought in my head.

What if they wouldn't come to a good end?

Labels: EMO

Finding decent things to write about so I don't lose them in my mind. So here's one of simple yet profound concept lingering about.

I think the system by which this world was designed to run on is on selflessness. Basically, self-giving. If we'd all live giving rather than getting, I think the world will be a better place to live in. To live, we need things. Most of these needs often are derived from others. Money, food, comfort, assurance, companionship, love. And these are so dearly yearned that many people go the extremes to attain them.

Unfortunately, it's the philosophy of many to do opposite, in which we stick to self-preservation. And it's that attitude is what hurts the world, hurts people. We become desperate in ensuring our own survival from hurts, we start to put up measures to protect what we have from going out, at the same time trying to find opportunities to get them.

All of these works on a system of give and take. To take something equates to someone giving it out. For every person being cared for, someone must give out the same measure of care. On the other hand, someone who holds back from another equates to a lack for the receiving end.

In sum, there's more people wanting to be helped than to help. The good thing is that there's a bunch of good people giving out more than they receive from others (tap from other resources).

Another part of this system is the cycle of hurts. We all get hurt. And hurting prompts many to become protective of themselves. Often, the wrong kind of defense are employed, and it results in keeping safe at the expense others. In turn, people around get hurt and the same defense kicks in, causing a cyclic series of people hurting people.

If'd all let down our hurtful defenses for once, and at the same time do a nice deed for another, we could begin a cycle of positive support. Everyone relying on each other instead of dysfunctional coping mechanisms. It'd would be impractical to ask everyone to do it at one go, but then change must begin with one. For one person to stop playing the hurt game, for another to reciprocate, and soon more to follow on. If'd we all do our parts and persevere in holding out, instead of adding to this hurtful cycle, one day we'll make it a better place for everyone, for ourselves. But of course this will take selflessness.

I can't ask people to stop this, but I can be an example and play a part in stopping this. Will you?

Labels: thoughts

Hmm, just a little update on my journey. Realize during this season, I have actually develop some degree of humility.

This comes quite as a surprise as not many people would know, but I used to be someone who would never back down in any and I mean any fight. Hence my stamina in going on and on repetitively on many things. I could stretch an argument to a span of days based on a single word I didn't feel happy about.

But it's been a long learning process. Didn't realize it but I'm glad. Over time, I've learnt to place my pride aside and make an effort to see where the "offending" party is coming from. It means that I actually remind myself to, lol. Sadly it isn't natural yet. Though, it's a big difference from the past me who wouldn't even consider my fault to be greater.

I think the root of every conflicts can be singled down to two simple things. Pride and anger. Sometimes we become self-absorbed in only wanting things our way, we push aside all opposition mindlessly. We ignore any faults and zoom in on the other person, demanding only what satisfies us, right or not. Mostly it's always only all about the other person and all his mistakes and faults But in every situation and conflict, have you sat down and thought who's the one with the biggest fault?


You're the one with pride. You're the one angry and being hostile. No, it doesnt matter how little it is, you've done it, you're wrong. And you've made a wrong to the other party, yes to the one that's being even nastier and judgmental. The person's who's shooting you down. Cos the important thing is, it's not what others have done, but what you did. Your faults are yours and yours to bear. Pride comes in, often in a self-righteous manner, setting yourself up to be better than the other person, hence being less at fault means we're more right.

When we choose to give that up, reminding ourselves its not always about us, we open ourselves to understanding the other person. Of course how much understanding boils down to the degree of how much we choose to let go. Even when people shoot us down for things we may not wholely agree on, there is usually a little truth in what people say that is applicable on us. A little pride or anger, the wrong tone, that moment of disrespect.

And that's what we are at fault for, regardless the aggressor and victim. So as long as we've made a small wrong, we're still wrong. Can't compare someone with 99 faults to say he's 98 faults more than me so he's more wrong. There's no "more wrong". There's only wrong, something everybody often is, in their own ways. Similarly, there's no one person being 'more right' than the other.


So, if'd we could all lower our pride,reflect what we've done instead of being so critical of others. When someone shoots you, look at what truly was wrong with us rather than focus on what isn't, we'll all be better people.

Humility isn't for others. It's for ourselves. We learn. We build character.

Labels: thoughts

Took part in a deaf flash mob on 12 Feb. First time doing such a gutsy thing out in public.

Lol, slightly ego-centric here, but I like the pics of me. Feels weird yet interesting to see myself through another's perspective. HAHA.

Sorry for putting so many pics of myself. I'd like to see pics of me on my blog more often. I hardly have any.







"so free yourself and let live"


"love all men"

Labels: life, memories

And that's it, I've handed in my final assignment of my poly life. Man, that weight off the shoulders when throwing that booklet into the pigeon hole. Literally skipped and pranced the rest of the day.

Well, as much as that's done for the moment. Pretty much still have a big load in life to handle. Even worse, one's been added on recently, though you could say it was something I neglected anyway.

For now, I really want a break, if I could. but I'm just gonna trudge along with whatever I can find, and mercy be on me I get out of this with my sanity intact. It's been a really really bruising season, sweat drops turn crimson red.

As of the moment, 3 major issues in my life. and here they are in no particular order of disdain or excitement.

One.
Myself. and every lie I've believed in. That resolution I made this year, to free myself from the prison I kept myself in. To open up to love again, trust in the people and things around me. Forgive myself for all the wrongs I've done and learn to value myself a bit more.

Two.
Her. and everything that's has came out of this. There's still that incomprehensible frustration of how and why you were. Sometimes, you'd have to do the hardest things for love. Sometimes, you'd have to pay the highest price for it. And yet it is another mess I'm needing to sort out. It wont be easy, it'll come with pain, but to do it because it's necessary.

Three.
Him. and everything I've failed to be. The latest to my load, but was something neglected far too long. I'll have to put in effort to live up to my role, to be that example. It's long overdue, but never too late to start. Learn to be a better older brother


So gotta hold myself together, and pull through the storms ahead. Tough times ahead, but I'ma push through the rain to see that rainbow on the other side. Cheers!

Labels: life, thoughts

Put down my pride for once. And I tried.

I choked on it, coughed, mumbled. I mouthed it, and uttered a few sounds.

"I'm sorry."

I couldn't remember the last time I actually said that to him.

Unfortunately, "sorry" isn't always enough to fix things. Nor does it always redeem you a chance to make right.

But I realize, I didn't feel that pain of rejection and silence. Maybe I've grown more accustomed to it.

Labels: heart, life, thoughts

I'm sorry. Bryan. I'm sorry.

This may be the last time we ever get to speak, i'm not sure if you heard me that night. There's some things I hope I'll get to say before I never have the chance to again.

I'm sorry for not being a brother to you.

and,

I'm really proud and honoured to have you as a brother.

Labels: heart, memories

Had one of the biggest fight ever since a long time. Involved the whole family. Hah.

But keeping things short, I've realized how much a failure I am. I'm not putting myself down or anything. I'm referring to all the terrible flaws I have and feel so disgusted and disappointed about. I wish to change it, for but I really cant do it on my own?

Secondly, it reminded me about me not feeling loved. For many years I've purposed to live a life for others, to bring them a little more happiness, love, to build them up. But I think I'm quite avoidant about feel weak myself. I daren't be the weak one where everyone has to help me, and for that i've neglected a lot of issues that do not receive the attention they ought to.

I should stop running away from my own weakness. Stop denying the help and love people are willing to give me. Stop believing in the lies that no one will be there for me. Stop thinking that I'm not worth it.

I dunno, I made my resolution this year to really overcome this whole issue on love, but I forgot along the way, and it wasn't enough. If i really want this solved, I need to stop holding it on, cautiously letting it go. Trust. Let it all go. Let myself fall. People will be there to catch me, people will be there to hold me. I am cared for. I am loved. I am esteemed. I am cherished. I am important enough for their sacrifices. I am worth it.

So, to the ones who love me. Thank you for loving me. I'm sorry I've always pushed it away, and chose to see otherwise. I thank you so much for always being there in the good and bad, and for bearing with whatever nonsense I am. I have a request, those really uncomfortably, that if you care, would you kindly let me know you do. You don't have to if its uncomfortable. And for bigger request, do it make obvious, maybe like with a hashtag #hinico HAHA. Even if you're close do leave a name or a message.

The reason why is so that I'll have to proof, the evidence to show myself, that look, all these people are here, and they did this for you, big, small, long, short. They did this for you because they love you and care for you. And because of this, you never ever have the right to say you're alone without anyone. I don't want to give any room for excuse. Because this list of people have made an effort, gave a part of themselves for you to show that they're there and you can never say otherwise.

Lol. I'm make a dam ballsy move here. I don't if it'd even work out. I'll take the chance and try all over again. So, friends, families, and shadow ninjas, will you help me when i'm in need? hold me when I'm weak?

Will you?

"...at least stranger guys try much much harder getting to me."

You probably forgot the times I cried for you, bled for you, stab my heart for you, gave up my time for you, walked right into the face of rejection for you, call out while you ignored me for you, go lengths I've never gone for you.

And did my efforts get you? Now you're done with your games, when things are so broken down and I've been so worn out, you think it's time to be nicer to me. Why didn't you do it earlier? Why wouldn't you forgive me when I said sorry? Why wouldn't you look at me when I call you? Why wouldn't you answer despite me crying out for you to hear me? You're the only person in my life I fought so hard for. And what did I get in return for that effort? Rejection and spite.

If I was "so eager to readily hurt" you, I'd have long gave up on everything. I'd take out revenge by not answering nor looking at you when you talk to me. I'd blame you for cheating, and then using me-hurting-you as the reason for every choice you make. You see, if I wanted to hurt you purposefully and readily, I can do that anytime I want. In fact, I'm well verse in the know-hows of hurting someone. But no I don't do that, alright, I don't. I may have hurt you in many many ways, but none of them was ever intentional. Even if I get so pissed I feel like doing something to hurt you back, I make it a rule never to, because it never does anything good to hurt the people you love and care about. And I really don't like how you endlessly accuse me of how I enjoy hurting you purposefully with eagerness. Now if I ask you the same, what would be your answer?

Stop shifting everything on me, making me the absolute wrong of everything. Learn to take some responsibilities for your actions and choices. Stop blaming me, and using me as the reason for everything you do. It's my fault you're unhappy, it's my fault you're hurting yourself. It's my fault you never get out of this grudge. So now that i'm unhappy and tired of everything, is it my fault for turning things out badly that you've become this way? When, when will it ever be anything of your doing, the choices you made, the actions you took, that plays a part leading out to today. Or are you going to forever see yourself as a victim.

We both are victims. Victims of our own foolishness. Of trying to get the things we want for our own worlds. Of not learning how to look past our own insecurities, our past hurts, for not letting go of our emotional baggage, weighing on each other's present our past. Of taking on more responsibilities we arent ready for, for doing things we ought to know better not to. It's been a harsh lesson for both of us. I've learnt many valuable lessons though in painful ways. I hope you have too. Because each unlearnt lesson comes in more painful ways, and sometimes regrets. From now on, we be responsible of our respective lives, stop using each other as a scapegoat or punching bag. We'd become better people I'm sure.